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	<title>Comments on: Can I see or detect if my internet traffic is differentiated?</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.inspions.net/2006/06/18/can-i-see-or-detect-if-my-internet-traffic-is-differentiated/</link>
	<description>We Are, What We Think. Think About It.</description>
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		<title>By: Successful Blog - Net Neutrality 6-19-2006</title>
		<link>http://blogs.inspions.net/2006/06/18/can-i-see-or-detect-if-my-internet-traffic-is-differentiated/comment-page-1/#comment-383</link>
		<dc:creator>Successful Blog - Net Neutrality 6-19-2006</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Jul 2006 00:16:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.inspions.net/2006/06/18/can-i-see-or-detect-if-my-internet-traffic-is-differentiated/#comment-383</guid>
		<description>[...] Can I see or detect if my internet traffic is differentiated? There is a post at Save The Internet, that alleges Cox Communications of blocking Craigslist for almost three months. The security company Authentium, who handles security for Cox Communications reportedly explained with technical details why users can not reach Craigslist website. It looks like there is problem with the computers that hosts the craigslist website. Here is the reply from rnapier, strongly suggesting that the behaviour is normal and as per the specification. . . . [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Can I see or detect if my internet traffic is differentiated? There is a post at Save The Internet, that alleges Cox Communications of blocking Craigslist for almost three months. The security company Authentium, who handles security for Cox Communications reportedly explained with technical details why users can not reach Craigslist website. It looks like there is problem with the computers that hosts the craigslist website. Here is the reply from rnapier, strongly suggesting that the behaviour is normal and as per the specification. . . . [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Murali</title>
		<link>http://blogs.inspions.net/2006/06/18/can-i-see-or-detect-if-my-internet-traffic-is-differentiated/comment-page-1/#comment-337</link>
		<dc:creator>Murali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2006 23:57:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.inspions.net/2006/06/18/can-i-see-or-detect-if-my-internet-traffic-is-differentiated/#comment-337</guid>
		<description>Thank you so much all for explaining the situation and sharing so much information about the intricacies of the network.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you so much all for explaining the situation and sharing so much information about the intricacies of the network.</p>
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		<title>By: rnapier</title>
		<link>http://blogs.inspions.net/2006/06/18/can-i-see-or-detect-if-my-internet-traffic-is-differentiated/comment-page-1/#comment-333</link>
		<dc:creator>rnapier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2006 14:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.inspions.net/2006/06/18/can-i-see-or-detect-if-my-internet-traffic-is-differentiated/#comment-333</guid>
		<description>From PBCliberal, quoting me:
Notice the line â€œbut for longer than craigslist explicitly requested?â€ Notice also that thereâ€™s nothing in the body of the explanation that supports that conclusion in the summary?


I apparently skipped over a part of the explanation here. The window size is a *per-packet* window. You get a 0 window in this packet, then I should wait for an ACK before continuing, but I should always obey the window the last packet I received. The bug is that Authentium gets nailed into a 1-packet-at-a-time mode the first time it receives a zero window. They&#039;ve admitted that it&#039;s a bug and are fixing it.

But it&#039;s not a blacklist. It&#039;s just a bug. And craigslist could fix it on their end in the meantime if they chose to by modifying their window.

Craigslist&#039;s packets aren&#039;t malformed, they&#039;re just a corner case. Weird corner cases happen on the internet all the time and network admins run around behind the scene to keep things working. In the past that was done by some guy in the NOC at one telco calling his counterpart at a competing telco and saying &quot;Hey Bob, we&#039;ve got a problem here; let&#039;s fix it.&quot; As network operations&#039; issues have moved out of the NOC and into other parts of the company (PR, Legal, Executives), it&#039;s gotten harder to hold together this system that was originally based on a handful of guys &quot;making it work.&quot;

Calling every bug a conspiracy certainly isn&#039;t going to help foster the atmosphere of mutal cooperation that keeps our networks working.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From PBCliberal, quoting me:<br />
Notice the line â€œbut for longer than craigslist explicitly requested?â€ Notice also that thereâ€™s nothing in the body of the explanation that supports that conclusion in the summary?</p>
<p>I apparently skipped over a part of the explanation here. The window size is a *per-packet* window. You get a 0 window in this packet, then I should wait for an ACK before continuing, but I should always obey the window the last packet I received. The bug is that Authentium gets nailed into a 1-packet-at-a-time mode the first time it receives a zero window. They&#8217;ve admitted that it&#8217;s a bug and are fixing it.</p>
<p>But it&#8217;s not a blacklist. It&#8217;s just a bug. And craigslist could fix it on their end in the meantime if they chose to by modifying their window.</p>
<p>Craigslist&#8217;s packets aren&#8217;t malformed, they&#8217;re just a corner case. Weird corner cases happen on the internet all the time and network admins run around behind the scene to keep things working. In the past that was done by some guy in the NOC at one telco calling his counterpart at a competing telco and saying &#8220;Hey Bob, we&#8217;ve got a problem here; let&#8217;s fix it.&#8221; As network operations&#8217; issues have moved out of the NOC and into other parts of the company (PR, Legal, Executives), it&#8217;s gotten harder to hold together this system that was originally based on a handful of guys &#8220;making it work.&#8221;</p>
<p>Calling every bug a conspiracy certainly isn&#8217;t going to help foster the atmosphere of mutal cooperation that keeps our networks working.</p>
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		<title>By: PBCliberal</title>
		<link>http://blogs.inspions.net/2006/06/18/can-i-see-or-detect-if-my-internet-traffic-is-differentiated/comment-page-1/#comment-302</link>
		<dc:creator>PBCliberal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:06:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.inspions.net/2006/06/18/can-i-see-or-detect-if-my-internet-traffic-is-differentiated/#comment-302</guid>
		<description>Let me restate the summary in the rnapier post:
&quot;Summary: craigslist told Cox to please speak to it very slowly. Cox did, but for longer than craigslist explicitly requested. Fixing this for craigslist could break other sites, so some caution in shipping a fix is justified.&quot;

Notice the line &quot;but for longer than craigslist explicitly requested?&quot; Notice also that there&#039;s nothing in the body of the explanation that supports that conclusion in the summary?

That&#039;s because this is a case of compound failure. Cox supplies a firewall with its cable internet service, and that firewall didn&#039;t work correctly (the release version still doesn&#039;t, there is a beta that does.) The working production version is scheduled for this summer.

So this isn&#039;t really a case of &quot;fixing this for Craigslist,&quot; its just a case of fixing it. For craigslist, whether they&#039;re in violation of the protocol standard is pretty much a judgement call, but what they&#039;re doing is wasteful of resources and just plain bad practice.

The foes of net neutrality are absolutely frantic to blame somebody other than the big cable company even for part of the problem. That&#039;s why the summary includes a fact not in evidence. There is a problem at both ends of the cox-craigslist connection, and they both need to fix it. 

And yes, we will be able to at least get a clue about how downstream providers are handling our packets through remote systems that report to us and through places that have multiple internet connections on different providers. Hughes satellite is wonderful for this. You shoot right up at a satellite and come down hundreds of miles away in a totally distant subnetwork.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me restate the summary in the rnapier post:<br />
&#8220;Summary: craigslist told Cox to please speak to it very slowly. Cox did, but for longer than craigslist explicitly requested. Fixing this for craigslist could break other sites, so some caution in shipping a fix is justified.&#8221;</p>
<p>Notice the line &#8220;but for longer than craigslist explicitly requested?&#8221; Notice also that there&#8217;s nothing in the body of the explanation that supports that conclusion in the summary?</p>
<p>That&#8217;s because this is a case of compound failure. Cox supplies a firewall with its cable internet service, and that firewall didn&#8217;t work correctly (the release version still doesn&#8217;t, there is a beta that does.) The working production version is scheduled for this summer.</p>
<p>So this isn&#8217;t really a case of &#8220;fixing this for Craigslist,&#8221; its just a case of fixing it. For craigslist, whether they&#8217;re in violation of the protocol standard is pretty much a judgement call, but what they&#8217;re doing is wasteful of resources and just plain bad practice.</p>
<p>The foes of net neutrality are absolutely frantic to blame somebody other than the big cable company even for part of the problem. That&#8217;s why the summary includes a fact not in evidence. There is a problem at both ends of the cox-craigslist connection, and they both need to fix it. </p>
<p>And yes, we will be able to at least get a clue about how downstream providers are handling our packets through remote systems that report to us and through places that have multiple internet connections on different providers. Hughes satellite is wonderful for this. You shoot right up at a satellite and come down hundreds of miles away in a totally distant subnetwork.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Bennett</title>
		<link>http://blogs.inspions.net/2006/06/18/can-i-see-or-detect-if-my-internet-traffic-is-differentiated/comment-page-1/#comment-301</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:37:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.inspions.net/2006/06/18/can-i-see-or-detect-if-my-internet-traffic-is-differentiated/#comment-301</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not that hard to determine traffic discrimination using tools that are freely available. I used Ethereal to determine that Craig&#039;s List is not setup correctly for TCP. You do it too, but you&#039;d probably have to understand the rules for Internet protocols.

Some enterprising dude could easily write a simple program to analyze traffic and look for suspicious patterns, just like they do for viruses. It&#039;s not impossible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not that hard to determine traffic discrimination using tools that are freely available. I used Ethereal to determine that Craig&#8217;s List is not setup correctly for TCP. You do it too, but you&#8217;d probably have to understand the rules for Internet protocols.</p>
<p>Some enterprising dude could easily write a simple program to analyze traffic and look for suspicious patterns, just like they do for viruses. It&#8217;s not impossible.</p>
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